Ep36 Mike Pagan - This is Keeping You Mentally Poor

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:08:17

Mike Pagan

when we've got great people around us and we're proactively investing in ourselves, then there's things go wrong.

00:00:08:19 - 00:00:11:20

Mike Pagan

And when they do go wrong, we bounce back far more effectively

00:00:11:20 - 00:00:48:09

Patricia Lindner

Magnificence is the boundless expanse of being a liberation from limitation. It is the embodiment of authenticity, where you shed the shackles of self-doubt, shame and imposter syndrome. Here, worthiness flourishes like a vibrant garden where you have the power to determine your actions, destinations, and your closest relationships in the realm of magnificence. Creative individuality takes center stage. Your greatness is acknowledged, celebrated, and nurture.

00:00:48:11 - 00:01:15:07

Patricia Lindner

Gone are the days of mindless conformity. Your fitting in just to keep the peace. This show and your host, Patricia Lindner, are here to guide you as you align with your authentic design, leading the way to a life of purpose and fulfillment. Magnificence is not some unreachable peak or distant dream. It's inside you waiting to shine brighter than you ever thought possible.

00:01:15:08 - 00:01:19:05

Patricia Lindner

Welcome to your magnificence.

00:01:19:05 - 00:01:36:18

Patricia Lindner

Hello and welcome to another amazing episode of magnificence, the one and only empowerment podcast that strikes a match and shines the light on my magnificent guests. And today I have with me the amazing Mike pagan. Hello Mike

00:01:36:18 - 00:01:38:08

Patricia Lindner

welcome to the show.

00:01:38:10 - 00:01:43:10

Mike Pagan

Thank, thank you for having me. I'm excited. Intrigued to know where we're going to go today.

00:01:43:15 - 00:02:14:08

Patricia Lindner

Yeah. And I just was so, drawn into your background and my background and talking about magnificence and shining the light, and I was like, wow, that is so on spot. So before we dive into your light and your magnificence and all the good stuff, I would love to introduce you briefly to the audience. And then we go from there.

00:02:14:10 - 00:02:48:17

Patricia Lindner

Mike Pagan is the mental wealth strategist, a very interesting, name I want to dive into just after the introduction, a mental wealth strategist. He's combating isolation in the workplace with the pursuit of positive mental wealth. He's an executive coach, a speaker, and a mastermind facilitator, enabling more fun personally and professionally for his clients. Mike, again, welcome to the show.

00:02:48:19 - 00:02:54:06

Mike Pagan

Thank you. I did that sums it up quite well. Somebody very clever must have written it.

00:02:54:08 - 00:03:25:14

Patricia Lindner

I bet, I bet. So I stressed the term mental wealth. Mental wealth strategist. So this is really unusual, Mike, because oftentimes or most of the time in like mainstream conversations, I hear mental health. and this is for me, it is like, oh, what did he talk about? It's mental wealth. How did you come up with this term and what does it embody?

00:03:25:14 - 00:03:30:00

Patricia Lindner

What is it all about in simplicity?

00:03:30:02 - 00:03:41:22

Mike Pagan

Mental wealth is the sort of the overriding umbrella. This is sort of like the holistic approach to how we look after ourselves. how we work. So it's a mental health, is

00:03:41:23 - 00:03:49:22

Mike Pagan

dependent on who you're talking to is more often than not referred to in a negative light. Yeah. People have mental health problems. They have challenges.

00:03:49:22 - 00:04:07:23

Mike Pagan

They have issues. and it's it comes across in that negative that, focus. And then when you start talking about wealth, will wealth is, what we do to, to do with finance. And it's how we look after ourselves. Can we afford our clothes, our food, our houses, whatever it is we happen to be in.

00:04:08:01 - 00:04:44:19

Mike Pagan

And so when I put the two areas together, sort of a mental wealth, and suddenly we're now investing in our mental health, we're investing in ourselves now. And it's a it's there is more than just well-being. It's more than just, support networks. It's the combination of all of these areas. Because when, when we're working in isolation, which happens a lot of the time, isolation kills, creativity, prevents decision making and then can turn into this negative spiral vortex that takes us down the roots of depression, anxiety, and potentially suicides.

00:04:44:21 - 00:05:14:17

Mike Pagan

So when we're investing and we're dealing with areas around isolation and the problems that go with that by building a support network, I call the mental wealth setting that is fit for purpose, for the way forward. Then that evolves and it is constantly evolving. And and that's where there's sort of the synchronicity that the whole work, when we've got great people around us and we're proactively investing in ourselves, then there's things go wrong.

00:05:14:19 - 00:05:31:14

Mike Pagan

And when they do go wrong, we bounce back far more effectively because it's not a panacea of easy life that doesn't happen, doesn't exist. We stuff will go wrong and will continue to will happen everything else. But we have to have good people around us that help us along about what.

00:05:31:16 - 00:06:02:20

Patricia Lindner

And does this apply to. So I just had so many ideas going off in my head. So does this apply to, for example, let's talk about me. I'm a small business owner, not being part of a company. Does your approach of mental wealth apply for me as well, or is it just, this is a support network inside of a company where you have those mental health, teams around you

00:06:02:19 - 00:06:26:17

Mike Pagan

if we start at the core issue here, isolation is not selective over whether you are, a solopreneur or you are the chief executive of a multi-billion dollar business with thousands of employees around the world, when you when you're at the top of your you're if we're talking work at the moment when you're at the top of your business, be that individual or thousands.

00:06:26:19 - 00:06:45:12

Mike Pagan

But the issue is, who do we turn to to get support? if you're in a big company, you can't tell the the shareholders. You don't know the answers. You can't tell the stakeholders. You don't know the answers. You can't tell your co-directors, you're not sure what to do next. Your partner will always say, oh, just go for it.

00:06:45:17 - 00:07:11:11

Mike Pagan

because you always land on your feet. Your friends at the school gate, at the sports or whatever it is you do. Oh, yeah. Mike. Yeah. You always do. All right? And you're never going to tell an employee or people that work for you or a client that you don't know what to do next. So suddenly, in unintentionally, we create this whole isolation bubble, and we need to empower other people to be our support.

00:07:11:13 - 00:07:32:21

Mike Pagan

We need to bring those people along with it, and they have to be fit for purpose as well. It's a the one of the things I do with a lot of, people, I do this when I'm speaking on stage or in 1 to 1 work is get them to totally subjectively, not scientifically, subjectively score, then work the people around them.

00:07:32:22 - 00:07:50:07

Mike Pagan

And it's fascinating because you get people just sort of writing down names. I mean, my wife includes the dentist on that because you guarantee she's not having an affair with him. So she says, but it's but it's that whole thing, just before we go on holiday or just before we come back from holiday. She has a tooth problem.

00:07:50:09 - 00:08:11:08

Mike Pagan

It's guaranteed. so, so so the dentist is on her speed dial? Not quite, but it feels like it. But it's it's. So when you create this list of all the people around us who will in our network, and then we school them, and again, this is totally subjective. gut Gutfeld, we just give them a score of 1 to 10, ten being a high school, one being a low school.

00:08:11:10 - 00:08:38:21

Mike Pagan

No, no more science behind it than that. And then translate those numbers. And this is what, the listeners, I would challenge you to do this then it's what do those numbers mean if you if if somebody scores a one, 2 or 3, they know you, you know, then there's no relationship. You just know each other. You could just be a friend on social media or whatever it is, so that that older Facebook mean when you've got the funeral parlor and you've got that, and it's turning around.

00:08:38:21 - 00:08:57:04

Mike Pagan

We were expecting so many more people because they got thousands of friends on Facebook. Yeah, yeah, this is the real stuff. if they score 4 or 5, you know them because of a reason. So it could be the school gate, could be the sport you played. You don't turn up for your sport for two months because you broke your leg.

00:08:57:06 - 00:09:15:04

Mike Pagan

and they tried and. Oh. What have you been like? broke my leg. Oh, they don't reach out. They don't. But you get on fine with them. It's all sociable, but you're not close. Then you got your five, sorry. Yeah. Sixes and sevens. sixes and sevens is the largest group. Because these are the people, you know, some of them you've known since.

00:09:15:04 - 00:09:39:06

Mike Pagan

But very small childhood all the way through. You have all sorts of conversations with them about anything and everything. However, what you don't do is you'll never open, honest and vulnerable with them. They don't know that inner side where you can talk finance, you can talk health, you can talk spiritual, you can talk, everything else that's going on, they don't know that you haven't.

00:09:39:09 - 00:09:59:22

Mike Pagan

You don't trust them enough or you don't feel comfortable enough. But I mean, you've known it for 25 years in some cases. I mean, my mum, my best mate was my best man. but I cannot talk anything financial with it. because he's he's got this big chip on his shoulder about numbers. so I just can't go there.

00:10:00:00 - 00:10:25:18

Mike Pagan

Yeah. and and there's other people, and it's. And it's not. It doesn't have to be in balance. So I could score somebody, a four out of ten, but they have me as an 11 or 12 out of ten because I'm that important to them. But. And it's that network. So these people that are in your mental well team are the ones who scores eight nines and tens, and they're the ones you can be open, honest, vulnerable and mentally naked with.

00:10:25:20 - 00:10:47:17

Mike Pagan

So you can share all sorts with them and they will call you out and say, Patricia, that's a ridiculous idea. You can't do it. Yeah. and because you've given them permission to do that, the scary reality is the number of people who, when they do this for the first time, turn around and find out. I've got nobody in my my mental.

00:10:47:17 - 00:11:09:12

Mike Pagan

Well, I've, I've scored zero there. I've got lots of sixes and sevens but nobody. And that's because we spend our whole lives giving, solving, fixing and helping, not looking after number one. And that's a baseline. That's not a problem. That's just a reality of where we are today. the point of doing that exercise the first time. Okay.

00:11:09:16 - 00:11:33:02

Mike Pagan

You scored zero, you scored eight because you got one person who scored an eight. That's okay. Now we going to build the strategies. Hence mental. Well strategist is my title to build that support network as we go forward. So people have got great people around them that are fit for purpose for the way forward. Was just because they were great two years ago doesn't mean they're great today.

00:11:33:04 - 00:12:01:14

Patricia Lindner

Yeah, I like that. And as you spoke about those numbers and you said, the the sixes, they could be someone that you have been knowing for a very long time. And it just made me think of some school mates that I meet once a year, and we each together round about Christmas and we share about our year end at the same time.

00:12:01:14 - 00:12:30:07

Patricia Lindner

I need to say that we really, honestly, whenever I share and I know that lots of people, these are like 12 people. it looks as if we were sharing openly with all the vulnerability, but there is always this holding back part that doesn't allow, to be honest, like into the core of your being. there is always this, I don't go into this place.

00:12:30:09 - 00:12:40:02

Patricia Lindner

I can share that with them, even though I have been knowing them for over 30 years. So that is like, wow, wow. Yes, that's so true.

00:12:40:04 - 00:13:03:11

Mike Pagan

And then this, this movies where you get people meeting up as a group, gatherings like you just described, and they hire a car. Yeah. This really smart and really posh so they can turn up at that reunion and and feel worthy. sorry that that's just just reinforcing the problem and the challenges. Right.

00:13:03:13 - 00:13:33:06

Patricia Lindner

Yeah. And I am one of the lucky ones, because just last week or the week before last week, I had, I had on my cell phone five people in a row that I texted to. And I was in awe because they are the five people that I really trust fully, and they trust me fully. And I was like, wow, they are in a row and I would love to have them really around me, but they are spread all over the world.

00:13:33:08 - 00:13:52:22

Patricia Lindner

But they they would be there whenever I need them online or maybe they would even come over. I can share everything that I want to and they they would not laugh about what I say. They would be very honest with all the things that I said.

00:13:52:23 - 00:13:55:14

Mike Pagan

Potentially quite rude.

00:13:55:16 - 00:13:56:21

Patricia Lindner

Yes.

00:13:56:22 - 00:14:01:04

Mike Pagan

Nobody else talks to me like that. That's why I'm here. Yeah.

00:14:01:06 - 00:14:29:13

Patricia Lindner

I love that. And, this is such a great bridge into looking at your chart because it is as if you, Yeah, you created something so valuable around those mental health teams that is building those little communities. They don't need to be really big. I don't know, is it like five people or a four?

00:14:29:15 - 00:14:34:02

Mike Pagan

The mental well team will get to between 8 and 15 maximum.

00:14:34:02 - 00:14:34:17

Patricia Lindner

Uhhuh.

00:14:34:19 - 00:14:54:01

Mike Pagan

Okay. And I'm one of the what? There's one element in there which I'll explain in a moment that said, has multiple people, which which is why that number gets, elevated. But the it's that my, my, like, mother in law always said, if you can count your best friends on more than one and you're kidding yourself.

00:14:54:03 - 00:14:55:16

Patricia Lindner

Oh, okay.

00:14:55:18 - 00:15:10:11

Mike Pagan

And I thought that's, that's a, that's an interesting way of looking at it because then suddenly it's, it's the arguments about I read something earlier today about that if, if, if love is conditional. That's not love.

00:15:10:13 - 00:15:12:19

Patricia Lindner

Okay. Tell me more about that.

00:15:12:21 - 00:15:14:09

Mike Pagan

Which is quite scary because it's.

00:15:14:09 - 00:15:14:23

Patricia Lindner

Scary.

00:15:14:23 - 00:15:25:12

Mike Pagan

Additional. Then you have to do this in other in other words, for me to do that. Whereas love true love is unconditional, unconditional. So so so conditional love is not love.

00:15:25:14 - 00:15:26:17

Patricia Lindner

Right?

00:15:26:19 - 00:15:36:22

Mike Pagan

Right. That that that's obsession. That's control. That's whatever else it happens to be. and it's sort of or it's it. So it's, it's understanding those differences.

00:15:37:00 - 00:16:09:04

Patricia Lindner

Yeah. And I think that is so, I think many people are or almost everyone is looking for this unconditional love when you just break it down. but it is rare. It is rare just in families. when you look at, parents and children. Yeah. If you, bring a good grade, then I support you. If you don't, then, I don't talk with you for days.

00:16:09:04 - 00:16:32:16

Patricia Lindner

I, I do the silent treatment. So, just as an example. Unconditional love. I think that is the, the big goal that everyone is wanting to reach. And so I love your idea of building those mental health teams to not suffer from mental poverty. That is what came to my mind.

00:16:32:17 - 00:16:40:14

Mike Pagan

And not suffer from mental poverty. Who are like that? Yeah, nice language. Like I'll make a note of that one.

00:16:40:16 - 00:17:23:02

Patricia Lindner

Do that please. So here we have your human design chart manifesting generator. Mike Pagan, that is someone who, is a hybrid version between a manifester and a generator and the generator. But I just explained to you because I know you have not had the chance to look into your chart before our conversation, and maybe someone out there who is watching would love to learn more about human design and the types and there is the Manifesting generator, one out of five types, a mix between the manifest and the generator.

00:17:23:02 - 00:17:58:10

Patricia Lindner

The generator type, as the word says, is someone who has a lot of power generating power by whatever they do, by doing the work they love, and being someone that can do the work, becoming masterful at what they do. The manifester type is someone who can really, Bring or manifest things. Someone who is initiating things, who is creating realities.

00:17:58:10 - 00:18:27:06

Patricia Lindner

And when you bring them together, that's a person who is multitasking, multi potential light, someone who is really fast in developing ideas, looking for the shortcuts, being busy with many things, working on many projects, reading many books at a time because there is so much energy and the need to create and to find a faster way.

00:18:27:08 - 00:18:46:22

Patricia Lindner

So that is the manifesting generator or at Time Bender. That is another expression for the manifesting generator, just, described briefly. I don't know if this speaks to you. I just wanted to share with you your general type. Mike.

00:18:47:00 - 00:19:12:21

Mike Pagan

No. Thank you. Now, I'm I'm intrigued to learn more because it's it's it's it's a very different, model that, that, that, that I'm not experienced with. So understanding how it sits and what the translation is. And that's all taken from, my birth, my location, my geography and so on. Not my personality traits, my behavioral traits or my desires.

00:19:13:02 - 00:19:21:09

Mike Pagan

This is purely taken off. that, that, that other side of the equation, which is very, very different to what I'm used to.

00:19:21:11 - 00:20:04:09

Patricia Lindner

Yeah. And, I, I need to add at that point that I was, very full of doubt and hesitant to work with those kinds of systems, tools, assessments, because I never, ever want to put anyone into a box. My, I love using those, insights to help people really get to their fullest potential, and it is really intriguing to dive into the depth of what this can offer to you, or as someone who is interested in it.

00:20:04:11 - 00:20:30:11

Patricia Lindner

it never, ever. So the way I do it, it does not box someone in it is really opening you up to more, just giving you, a different way of looking at your energetic blueprint. and we could even go deeper into the, the gene expressions, the energetic gene expressions. But that would go too far in our short conversation here.

00:20:30:13 - 00:21:06:23

Patricia Lindner

And just looking at, hey, what is the best strategy to apply when I make decisions? What is the best way to show up? Am I a person that is full of energy and that invites people into their space and is fully okay? Or am I someone who needs to, withdraw and replenish? So that is not you. so there is a project a type needs to just withdraw and recharge the batteries because otherwise they would burn out.

00:21:07:01 - 00:21:09:11

Patricia Lindner

Manifesting generators have to.

00:21:09:11 - 00:21:19:14

Mike Pagan

Do that insight because I'm married to a an out and out extrovert. and then she'll get to a point where she just falls off a cliff and has to go and hide in a dark room.

00:21:19:20 - 00:21:22:19

Patricia Lindner

Maybe you should reject that. We should check that out.

00:21:22:21 - 00:21:42:17

Mike Pagan

potentially. but by contrast, for me, I'm, I, I, I become the extrovert, I become the noise. But I then retreat into this, into the middle ground. I'm not a natural introvert, but I do like peace and quiet. and it sort of is that reflection space. And, I'll turn it on and then turn it off again.

00:21:42:19 - 00:21:57:00

Mike Pagan

so, so what you're saying the energy, the volume today is because I'm turning it on, because we're on a podcast. What? We're we're entertaining, we're challenging, we're having conversations and so on. but but this is not how I sit the whole time in front of my office.

00:21:57:02 - 00:22:16:19

Patricia Lindner

And I'm a man. Is this in general as well? And I 100% agree I can be the total extrovert, but I need the me time. I need the peace and quiet, just to follow my ideas, my thoughts being nature. And I bet that's the same for you.

00:22:16:21 - 00:22:35:12

Mike Pagan

Well, this this links beautifully to sort of the first of my four areas is self-care, which, and sort of that that sits and self-care for me is helping people to invest in themselves. Yeah. and joking aside, I was always number six in my family.

00:22:36:08 - 00:23:00:22

Mike Pagan

Why number six? Well, because his wife, three children and a dog. and we're actually breeders for the guide dogs or have been historically, so the Christmas before last I was number 14 because there were a little puppies as well. very cute, very sweet. but but this, as I say, that's joking aside, I was always focused on everybody else first.

00:23:01:00 - 00:23:24:00

Mike Pagan

and that's that that there's, there's a, there's every thing talks about sort of, fill up your cup first, whether you're following a religion or you're following other, other formats. If number one is not fit for purpose, I cannot fix or help other people that are going through challenging times. Yeah. So I have to look out for number one and looking after number one from when we were children, it was seen as being selfish.

00:23:24:02 - 00:23:46:14

Mike Pagan

You got to share your toys with other, children. You got it. Don't, don't don't do that. That selfish, I mean, I put a post up nowadays on a Sunday called Selfish Sundays, and it's just it's just a random post about being slightly selfish looking after the soul on a Sunday. and it's just that we we all do different things.

00:23:46:16 - 00:24:10:11

Mike Pagan

I, I do a little bit of open water swimming, just to say the least. and that's part of it. But I'm not somebody in the self-care world who does meditation and mindfulness. according to the traditional route that people talk about. But for years I've worked in flow the years, but I've done it as active flow.

00:24:10:13 - 00:24:40:14

Mike Pagan

So if I'm swimming and this weekend, recently, I've just done one of the biggest lakes in the in England, from end to end. And it was very, very cold. It was a 4.25 hour swim. But if you can imagine, sort of stroke after stroke A that's monotonous. B it's quite boring. But when you just get into that flow state, whilst doing an activity, walking, going up, climbing up, gardening, whatever it is that enables somebody to get into flow, that's active mindfulness.

00:24:40:16 - 00:24:58:18

Mike Pagan

And at the end of that situation, whatever it is, I have never gone out of the water feeling worse than I did before. I got in sometimes a bit cold, maybe a little bit sick because I've drunk something or whatever else, but just my mind and my head is always felt felt better. and that and that's part of those self-care.

00:24:58:18 - 00:25:23:18

Mike Pagan

So whether it be activity, fitness, nutrition, meditation, mindfulness, sanctuary, where do we go to reboot to switch off that that little hideaway it can be in the house or bed is still. It's a coffee shop in the village or the town down the road. And, not being rude about, mothers with young children with babies.

00:25:23:20 - 00:25:48:08

Mike Pagan

But the coffee shop, if that's your sanctuary, make sure it's got an upstairs, because there are less pushchairs. Go up there. And if you want peace and quiet, it works. but but that and it's that environment where, what do we need to do to go and reboot? I have a place where my parent's ashes are scattered in the sand dunes at a location in the south of England, and I will go down there once or twice a year.

00:25:48:10 - 00:26:05:06

Mike Pagan

and I will just sit on the beach and watch because something tells me they're around. Now, however you dress it up, that's sort of that's sad, that's positive, that's whatever. But it just it feels good. It's a bit of a sanctuary. So part of the self-care we have to have that.

00:26:05:08 - 00:26:27:19

Patricia Lindner

I love that. And so I would say, I know that being selfish is the only chance we have. Not meaning the bad selfish, but we are meant to live a happy life. That is what I believe. What I know, and really figuring out what it is that brings you into this flow state. It is different for everyone.

00:26:27:19 - 00:26:52:18

Patricia Lindner

And so we are really close with what we do with people. Mike. Because when I look at that chart, this gives me the opportunity to look into what what what recharges the batteries, what makes them put in a flow state. Because sometimes people know what they don't want, but they don't know what they do want. And so maybe they get a little, a hand with that.

00:26:52:20 - 00:27:10:21

Patricia Lindner

And so I like that. You said you don't need to sit down and meditate if this is not what puts you into the flow set, because maybe swimming is exactly what it is, or just doing something that that is in alignment with who you are at.

00:27:10:23 - 00:27:15:08

Mike Pagan

Yes, at the enlightenment, I'm sitting cross legged. I'm an ex rugby player. I can't do.

00:27:15:08 - 00:27:31:17

Patricia Lindner

That. Yeah, I hate that. I hate sitting cross-legged because I need to focus on the cross legs because they hurt. And so I can't, just let go of my thoughts because my thoughts are with my legs. I don't.

00:27:31:23 - 00:27:32:05

Mike Pagan

I don't.

00:27:32:05 - 00:27:46:05

Patricia Lindner

Make a little fun out of it. So you need to really find out what makes you happy, what puts you into the flow state, what makes you mentally healthy and wealthy? speaking in your language.

00:27:46:07 - 00:28:04:10

Mike Pagan

And I need these. The self-care team. These are people who become part of your mental well-being. Just as having a coach is one of those, fundamental areas having professional network. I'm not a person who loves doing detail. So if there's a 47 page document to be read and.

00:28:04:12 - 00:28:06:15

Patricia Lindner

You're a manifesting generator.

00:28:06:17 - 00:28:30:08

Mike Pagan

But yeah, that's not my world. No, it's not exactly. But then the fourth area in here is the is the peer support group. The mastermind group. and that is where we proactively recruit a team of people that, I it's all done in confidentiality so we can build that network. And in that environment, you challenge each other.

00:28:30:10 - 00:28:53:04

Mike Pagan

Each person has its I'm in the hot seat and we ask brutal, direct, honest questions. And then then at the end of it, there's this accountability. Yeah. As a result of this session where you've been grilling me, I'm going to do these 2 or 3 things before we next meet. And that's where the power comes in, because otherwise it's just a friendship circle.

00:28:53:06 - 00:29:16:14

Mike Pagan

and the friendship circle is nice. They're great to have, and we enjoy them. But when it comes to performance, productivity, improvement, self-improvement, we need other people who are going to stretch us. Yeah. and that's where the mastermind group comes in. and it's that this there's so much written about masterminding, but it's for me, it's the most powerful tool because you can get.

00:29:16:16 - 00:29:38:16

Mike Pagan

You know, I was saying before in your mental well, team, 8 to 15 people, if you've got a proactive mastermind team, you've got six people that straight away. So and once that, group evolves, it goes from slightly awkward to begin with as you're getting to know each other and we're just giving each other truths. So you actually they become some of your best friends.

00:29:38:18 - 00:30:04:20

Mike Pagan

And there's a story of a friend of mine who ran a mastermind group in the UK, and one of the members had a terminal cancer diagnosis, and he attended the mastermind group before going home to his family because he wanted to have a get all the answers, all the questions in place inside his head. So when are you going home to the family, which was clearly going to be a very emotional the meeting.

00:30:04:22 - 00:30:28:03

Mike Pagan

he was ready and prepared and and suddenly that's well on and we were talking about business and performance and, personal. Know it it becomes more, and this is why mental wealth is that umbrella that covers personal performance, personal, sanity looking after number one, but also the business, because we've got the right people around us.

00:30:28:05 - 00:30:30:09

Mike Pagan

We do more.

00:30:30:11 - 00:30:42:04

Patricia Lindner

That's why you said personally and professionally. So it is, holistic approach. It includes all layers and all levels and all parts of life.

00:30:42:06 - 00:31:08:00

Mike Pagan

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I've had, clients I've coached with and I've been brought in under the business executive coaching route. and they, they've been high brow professional service individuals. and they want to talk business and they want to do something to do the pointy finger and the frowny or and this is serious, within a second or third session.

00:31:08:02 - 00:31:24:03

Mike Pagan

yeah. The tears are flowing, and the and the realities coming out, and they say, okay, well, and they say, why are we why am I doing this? Is it because if we don't get over this, we can't get to the next right? We have have to. It is all encompassing.

00:31:24:05 - 00:31:38:19

Patricia Lindner

Right? Right. I 100% agree. And I have the same experience whenever it starts professionally. There is a personal element that shows up in session three, four, five something like that.

00:31:38:21 - 00:31:40:01

Mike Pagan

Yeah, definitely.

00:31:40:03 - 00:32:22:04

Patricia Lindner

I would love to go back to your chart because I only started sharing about you being a manifesting generator, and now I wanted to go down a different road. But now as you talked about direct, vulnerable, maybe vulnerable questions, I had a thought just showing up in my head. And it's this, profile part, profile part says three six, which are aging lines or aging lines, and we don't need to know more about that.

00:32:22:10 - 00:32:51:17

Patricia Lindner

But it says modern, which is the three, and it says role model, which is the six. And as I looked at your chart, I thought, so I know you, but honestly, I know you as, someone that I have a coffee chat with. So I would love to learn more about that. How come that you came up with this approach, this idea of mental health?

00:32:51:19 - 00:33:32:18

Patricia Lindner

Is there a component and you could say that's none of your interest and none of your business, but, this profile shows me and I just tell you briefly, that is someone who went into experiences himself, who maybe, found himself isolated and was looking for a solution because the motor does not read about things. The more motor goes in and experiences so that he makes the experience on his own and can pass this on to others.

00:33:32:20 - 00:34:11:01

Patricia Lindner

The role model. And this is like a double thing, is someone who, in the first, let's say, 25 to 28 years of your life, was someone who went fully in experience. A lot of stuff, maybe even edgy things, maybe difficult, distracting, dangerous things, but also good things. So someone who was fully in and then, over the course of time after this first period withdrew to really integrate the experiences

00:34:11:02 - 00:34:28:06

Mike Pagan

from the master side of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, there's some ugly in the background when I was young. so like, I can, I can that that that's a reality. and then, as that goes forward, the work I was doing that sort of became the evolution of mental wealth.

00:34:28:09 - 00:34:48:23

Mike Pagan

Yeah. Was with, professional and elite sports, men and women transitioning to their life after sport. So the guillotine moment comes down. Yesterday, they had 35 people keeping on the pitch, in the pool, on the track. And now all of those are not fit for purpose, for the way forward. So suddenly they had a forced isolation, forced transition.

00:34:48:23 - 00:35:19:02

Mike Pagan

Now they got old lot of form or just not good enough, whatever it was. and so the work I was doing there really opened my eyes to that transition piece. And then that went a step further that, that transition. But this happens repeatedly through our lives because you're transitioning from school to college, from college to, apprenticeships to universities to job to, first property to first homeowner to partners, to children, we transition constantly.

00:35:19:04 - 00:35:23:11

Mike Pagan

And that support network around us evolves along that time.

00:35:23:13 - 00:35:24:09

Patricia Lindner

Right.

00:35:24:10 - 00:35:48:00

Mike Pagan

Because just because they were great at the age of 18 doesn't mean they're going to be great at the age of 88. chances of you both being alive might slim as well, but it's it's that journey. and then from so from the role model side of things that you're describing that, yeah. I when, when I first met my, my then girlfriend, but wife, I, I had a specific challenge.

00:35:48:00 - 00:36:14:18

Mike Pagan

I wanted to go and live and work overseas for a period of time. And while I was applying to to get jobs and so on, because the language was I don't want to wake up at the age of 50 saying, what if or if only. Yeah. so when we moved to Australia at the age of 29, and had three years over there, took dual citizenship, had second child was born out there, we have three all have lived in Australia at different points.

00:36:14:20 - 00:36:37:13

Mike Pagan

My youngest is at university over there. Nowadays she's visiting the UK as, as as as this recording goes out. but it's just, as you say, the role model. Well, that's the point. That's you're creating this stuff, you're creating opportunities. And for the last 20 years, I've been a very stable situation at bringing up a young family and everything else.

00:36:37:15 - 00:37:00:15

Mike Pagan

Now I'm in transition again because the main house is downsizing. We're building all world to move forward as a nomadic working world, so we will spend more time in different parts of the globe because we can't. But, and yeah, it means unsociable zoom and change times. Yeah, but I'll go to the beach or I'll go to the ski slope, or I'll go diving or I'll do something the following day.

00:37:00:15 - 00:37:24:11

Mike Pagan

As a result. Okay. Life's there for living. and, and it's building those that team around us that will enable that to happen. and so, so there's certain elements I think just describing your three and six, you had that. yeah. Categorically there's bits where I am definitely reflecting, deflecting and responding to, and then sharing and building off that.

00:37:24:13 - 00:37:36:19

Patricia Lindner

I like is I like it. So it's not something that you get from books or teachings. It is an expression of what you experienced.

00:37:36:21 - 00:37:38:09

Mike Pagan

University of life.

00:37:38:11 - 00:37:41:13

Patricia Lindner

Yeah, yeah. So that is just that is.

00:37:41:14 - 00:38:02:01

Mike Pagan

Like a classic example for you. My, my middle daughter, was diagnosed with dyslexia when she went to university. Severe dyslexia. and it was her. And the language that she was given was your intelligence, as in your dyslexia, which is why you've got to where you are. And it was messed up. and as guilty parents, obviously, you're thinking, oh, what?

00:38:02:01 - 00:38:22:20

Mike Pagan

How did I miss that? I was then doing a lot of reading around the situation and saying that I do that, I do that, I do that, and I scored worse than she did when I had my test only a year ago. So at the age of 50 plus, you suddenly work out all these coping mechanisms? Well, no, it's not coping.

00:38:22:20 - 00:38:40:01

Mike Pagan

It's just how I deal with it. I'm not a victim. I'm not a, it's not a disability to me. It's just. It's just who I am and how I work. and it's it's things like that where you just. You're always learning about yourself. You're discovering different areas. yeah, I've written for books and things like that.

00:38:40:06 - 00:39:02:15

Mike Pagan

How can you do that? Well, because you build the team around you. my my my wife is a grammar queen. and so she'll she'll, she'll turn around and say these repetition nonsense. How to read penning that. Okay. Well, that works because and nowadays you've got AI that will help you doing things like that, but it's it's still going to be you.

00:39:02:15 - 00:39:07:11

Mike Pagan

And this is the journey. and we see these areas. It's it's very powerful.

00:39:07:13 - 00:39:35:13

Patricia Lindner

Yeah, yeah. And this is what you can see in the chart in just those very they are more the general, parts. So what you can read up here, I nevertheless would love to dive into one of those spots. So the first thing that I, I already told you before we pushed the record button, your, body graph, that's the body graph.

00:39:35:15 - 00:40:09:21

Patricia Lindner

And it expresses certain centers, energetic centers in your body. So related to the position. So that's the like the head space and that's the root. the self center which is located around about your heart, the throat center, the brown square. And so they are representing different types of themes of topics, and yours are mainly, defined.

00:40:09:23 - 00:40:47:16

Patricia Lindner

So just last episode, I had someone with, fully open centers, which is a reflector type, and you are almost someone who has, fully defined centers. So what that means is that you derive the energy and everything and the, the, the knowledge from within. So it it runs from within. And the only place, energetically speaking, that you tune in and tap into your surroundings is the root.

00:40:47:16 - 00:41:16:02

Patricia Lindner

And this is a precious center. I wanted to share that with you because you're pretty stable in what runs in your chart. That's like, an energetic circuitry that no one can really influence, because that is who you are. And there is lots of information. And I would love to tell you 1 or 2, pieces of information right after speaking about the open root, because it is fully open.

00:41:16:07 - 00:41:45:02

Patricia Lindner

And openness in general means that you are able to tune in to your surroundings. It's like an energetic antenna, which is nice and beautiful, and there is no good or bad in either defined or open. at the same time, openness means being vulnerable because people can manipulate you, influence you, put pressure on you. And this is a pressure center.

00:41:45:04 - 00:41:49:23

Patricia Lindner

And I wonder, is this lens with you? the.

00:41:49:23 - 00:42:11:11

Mike Pagan

Oh, that's why I have built the mental health team. Because I need the people around me that will call me out on my stupid ideas or decisions because they know they know something different. I did a whole lot of property investing in the in the noughties, and some of it went very well. Some of it went horrifically wrong.

00:42:11:13 - 00:42:41:21

Mike Pagan

But the ones that went wrong was because I didn't have the right people asking better questions. I thought they were better than they were. and, it bit me. and so, so things like that. So, so when you're describing that, yes, it's definitely that is a clear vulnerability. but it's, it can be managed like building this support network around me that will provide the answers that I naturally can't see or would never see.

00:42:41:23 - 00:43:10:04

Patricia Lindner

That's interesting. So that's a very interesting way of looking at it, because really, someone with so many define centers has their own things running in your energetic circuitry and your own ideas, and you think they are amazing. And it is really great to have this team of people to shine the light on what you are developing or what you are asking for.

00:43:10:06 - 00:43:51:03

Patricia Lindner

The open route, the open routes and the this the the square on the very, bottom of your body graph could put some pressure on you when it comes to someone asking you to fulfill certain tasks in a certain amount of time, that is what an open route center does not really enjoy, because there is this pressure of I need, excuse me, I need to check this box and I need to check this box, and I need to be there on time or and this is putting so much pressure on me, especially when it comes from outside.

00:43:51:04 - 00:43:56:12

Patricia Lindner

Maybe from that could be your wife. Just saying. So I think.

00:43:56:17 - 00:44:17:08

Mike Pagan

It's why I didn't suit working in the corporate world. Yeah. Because, Well, why I didn't join the military. Yeah, there's a different twist. When I was a teenager, I did consider joining the military, because of family backgrounds and other things like that. But the reality was I would not have worked well as a number.

00:44:17:10 - 00:44:47:02

Patricia Lindner

and this is still great, because, Mike, you realize that you went down the road of. I want to be more in alignment with who I am, but there are millions of people out there that don't fit into an environment you just described. But they are, they are. And just imagine someone with a fully open body graph being vulnerable and open to being manipulated in so many ways.

00:44:47:04 - 00:44:55:23

Patricia Lindner

They find themselves burned out without a mental health team, without knowing their energetic blueprint, and they feel welcome.

00:44:55:23 - 00:45:19:01

Mike Pagan

To somebody else's agenda. Yeah, a help finding their own. And it's it's one of the things I will always say, sort of at the end of one of one of these, interview discussions is the call to action, for people when it comes to the mental health. But it's not just about us. so, so, sadly, a couple of years ago, fortunately, was unsuccessful.

00:45:19:01 - 00:45:46:12

Mike Pagan

But one of my son's friends, but, I had a suicide attempt, but but survived. the morning after this, happened, my one of my best friends who lives in the US rang me at 9:00 in the morning UK time. And that that, that does that. There is a reason for me telling you that's I, and I just said great to hear from you back, but why have you rung you should.

00:45:46:18 - 00:46:02:21

Mike Pagan

That's a bit of a rude answer to the cold. Whatever else is it? Seriously, I just need to know why have you picked up the phone and rung me at this time, on this date when we haven't spoken for several months or whatever it is? Why are you ringing now? Let me spend five minutes going around the houses and we couldn't come up with anything.

00:46:02:21 - 00:46:34:12

Mike Pagan

It was just gut feeling. Said I need to ring Mike because this friend of mine, he's the head of A&E in a hospital in Pennsylvania. So I was able to talk him through everything that this young man had done the night before and get answers as to what the because he was in a coma at that stage. And so I was able to go back to my son, who was then able to talk to this young man's twin sister and parents and give feedback as to what the prognosis ideas would be for the next 72 hours.

00:46:34:14 - 00:46:59:06

Mike Pagan

Wow. And and it's that whole thing of one of the call to action I always put out there is if there's somebody you haven't spoken to or your gut feel says, I should speak to, don't text and don't stick a message out on social media. Whatever it is, pick up the phone and ring them. Better still, geographically if you can go and see them, because we do not know what is going on in other people's worlds at that time.

00:46:59:08 - 00:47:23:06

Mike Pagan

And it is our duty as beautiful humans, human social responsibility. So language I use a lot to just look out for each other, to sort of building a whole mental world team is part of looking after number one selfishly, but it is our responsibility to look out for others. And we can do that just by making us one call, one one visit, whatever it is that works.

00:47:23:08 - 00:47:34:23

Patricia Lindner

I love that. I love that had such a beautiful, not beautiful, but beautiful example to to stress that this is so important.

00:47:35:01 - 00:47:48:01

Mike Pagan

Because that phone call, it was ringing at 4:00 in the morning. US time. Yeah. On his way home from a night shift at the hospital or an extended shift, there was everything was why now.

00:47:48:03 - 00:48:12:15

Patricia Lindner

Though, that that is just just inserting a little spiritual idea. We are all connected and we are connected. and so there is always a reason why we do things or say things or why we meet a certain person and attract someone into our lives. one last time, I would love to. So I could go on forever.

00:48:12:15 - 00:48:18:03

Mike Pagan

And we could, we could. And I know we're jumping on to other goals and we're doing other things. So yes.

00:48:18:03 - 00:48:18:20

Patricia Lindner

Yeah.

00:48:18:21 - 00:48:21:02

Mike Pagan

And final bits. What we got.

00:48:21:07 - 00:48:57:18

Patricia Lindner

There is so much information because you have so much definition in your chart. You can see there are those lines that connect two centers, for example the 6124. If it might be a bit, small, but this is 6124 or there is 20, 33, 34. So all those lines are the 14 two or the 3740. So there are so many connecting lines that are called channels.

00:48:57:20 - 00:49:29:21

Patricia Lindner

And they are very interesting to talk about because they describe what. I don't want to say defines you, but sort of defines it. That is something that are your specialties. And I could point out any of them or all of them, and they would be, so descriptive and so on spot to what you do. And I don't know what to talk about because they are all amazing.

00:49:30:02 - 00:50:11:21

Patricia Lindner

So I picked this one because I love this line, this channel, that goes from your sacral. So the area around your belly button or bit, below the belly button to the throat. And this is connected with this energetic line and that is 3420. And I picked it because it is the channel of charisma. And now I, I really to say that I want to see you in the full limelight because when I hear you speak about mental health, this is so aligned with what is in the chart.

00:50:11:23 - 00:50:39:16

Patricia Lindner

someone who has this, 20, 34 channel, the channel of charisma, that is the archetypal channel for a manifesting generator, which we both have. And I love this. This is someone, or this is called the channel where thoughts must become deeds. And this only happens, that is someone who is always busy. But there is someone who does what he or she really loves.

00:50:39:18 - 00:51:18:00

Patricia Lindner

So when you are in an area, when you are in a job, when you are in a space or with people and do something you really love, you can talk about it on stage, you can talk about it in a community, and you will be so overly charismatic, so in the flow, so enjoying what you do because that is your energetic, channel from your gut feeling to express your deepest, ideas, desires, convictions.

00:51:18:00 - 00:51:51:18

Patricia Lindner

So all of that and that shows so beautifully the person you are and the person I just witnessed in this conversation, I just see that you burn for the mental. Well, and I could imagine you standing on this big stage, really having this ripple effect of your charisma jumping onto, like, contagious lead, jumping on to all the people that listen to you.

00:51:51:20 - 00:52:04:15

Patricia Lindner

So that is the picture that I have about you. And that is why I picked talking about this channel. And I hope you enjoy this little mental picture of mind.

00:52:04:17 - 00:52:19:08

Mike Pagan

Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Now that I've got a big smile on my face, I like that. Sounds like we will have some more conversations after this, but I've really enjoyed this. Thank you so much for sharing me with your audience.

00:52:19:09 - 00:52:47:06

Patricia Lindner

Yeah, and I'm not. We are not fully done yet because I would love to, know from you when people would love to learn more about the mental health, mental health team, mental health work, the masterminds, and all the good stuff that you do, or if they would love to book you. because I know that you love speaking on stages, how can they find you?

00:52:47:06 - 00:52:48:03

Patricia Lindner

How can they reach?

00:52:48:04 - 00:53:13:00

Mike Pagan

Absolutely the simplest, easiest way for me is my name, Mike pagan. Dot com is the website. So you can you can find me through to, whatever browser you use or LinkedIn. But if you do send me a message on LinkedIn, please personalize the message so I know where where you where you've seen us talking because that, the random cold conversations that come through, can you just say hello?

00:53:13:02 - 00:53:21:21

Mike Pagan

we all get lots of those who don't know who they're from, so please personalize it. But yeah, I've absolutely loved to have more conversations and help where I can.

00:53:21:23 - 00:53:53:04

Patricia Lindner

Yeah, amazing. So I highly recommend reaching out to Mike and to wrap this beautiful conversation up. Is there one thing, one thought, one quote to one idea, one inspiration that you would love to put out into the world? That maybe because we were talking about timing that needs to be heard right now by someone watching or listening. anything you would love to share right now if that.

00:53:53:06 - 00:54:16:23

Mike Pagan

Everybody listening? Hey, that hopefully the idea of being selfish is not a negative look after number one, because isolation, especially in the hybrid world that we're working in nowadays is, is is growing. and so it's understanding asking for help is not a sign of weakness. Asking for help is a sign of maturity and understanding that you don't have all the answers.

00:54:17:01 - 00:54:35:08

Mike Pagan

And if people refuse you help when you ask, then they're the wrong person to ask. But there is a caveat. If you ask for help from somebody, then we need to take action on that afterwards. Because when we can then go back to Bob and say, well, the last time I ask you to get help, I went and did this and it didn't work or it did work.

00:54:35:10 - 00:54:45:06

Mike Pagan

but if you go back to them and say, can you give me more help? But I haven't done anything with what you said the last time. They're unlikely to help you a second time to asking for help. Absolutely. Go for it.

00:54:45:08 - 00:54:58:05

Patricia Lindner

Yeah. Such a beautiful, wrapping up of this conversation. You are magnificent. You are. So. I love that you say be number one. And.

00:54:58:09 - 00:54:59:03

Mike Pagan

Absolutely. Yeah.

00:54:59:04 - 00:55:18:12

Patricia Lindner

Make yourself as number one. Be selfish, because that's the only thing that we can do. That's my my total belief and my I know that this is so important. It doesn't work in another way because only you know what is good for you to really be more aligned with who you are. thank you so much.

00:55:18:14 - 00:55:23:05

Mike Pagan

No problem. Patricia, thank you for your. And thank you again. Love that.

00:55:23:07 - 00:55:52:18

Patricia Lindner

It was such a great conversation. Thank you for doing this amazing, magnificent work. And thank you to your audience for watching and listening to our conversation. You are magnificent. put yourself, in position number one and really care for yourself. You know what you want, and you know what you don't want. Looking forward to another amazing episode of magnificence and,

00:55:52:20 - 00:55:55:10

Patricia Lindner

Take care. Goodbye.

00:55:55:10 - 00:56:29:09

Patricia Lindner

Thank you for joining us for this empowering episode to continue this journey of aligning with your true purpose and uncovering your magnificence, schedule and illumination. Call with Patricia at Patricia Linder dot com. Please share this episode with someone who needs it and subscribe to the show on YouTube and your favorite podcasting platform. Join us again soon for another episode of Magnificence.

Ep36 Mike Pagan - This is Keeping You Mentally Poor

Mike Pagan

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